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**Fourputt** · 11-29-2011, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKroll

Your rant just shows a naive thought process, that unfortunately is prevalent in one of the political parties (two if you count the Tea Party as legitimate). Taking jobs from workers here in America and outsourcing for nothing other than profit should be considered a act contrary to what America is about. Isn't it wonderful that these companies feed people of other countries while US citizens go hungry and look for work, and that they pay subsistence wages for work, well what more can we ask of them.

If PING can be competitive, pay decent wages, provide good working conditions, make a quality product and also make a profit, why can't Taylor Made, Callaway and the others do so with work here in the US?

And don't use the old/tired, blame it on the Unions story. The Unions have gone through major changes in past years, they have worked with employers and scaled back on bargaining issues. Before Unions, workers were little more than interchangeable parts for employers, you should know that.

If employers outsource all of their work to other countries, what are American workers to do? Not everyone can own/run a business, not everyone is destine for higher education, many workers just want to work hard and be paid a living wage...what do these workers do ?

I don't argue that unions once served a purpose, but they have outlived their usefulness when their actions threaten the survival of the companies their workers are employed by - when it becomes more about power and greed than any actual needed benefit to the members. I've seen it first hand, so you can't tell me that I'm just touting the conservative party line. I've watched unions protect unqualified or just plain lazy "workers" simply because they are paid up members. Many unions make it nearly impossible for an employer to get rid of an inefficient worker as long as he shows up and puts in his time, regardless of the quality or quantity of his work. And those who are willing to work are forced shoulder that much more of the job. My company made a lot of changes over the years, and they resulted in more work being done more efficiently by fewer workers. That was how we kept costs at a level where we were competitive - in reality we became the world leader in the product we manufactured. We outsourced some parts production, but only to US manufacturers, not overseas unless those parts were being warehoused as spare parts to be used in that region. We had such a setup in Europe, where many of the spares used in European facilities were also made in European shops.

But that has nothing to do with counterfeit clubs. Counterfeits are made with cheaper materials, poor quality control, and break every patent and copyright law in the world. This site does a service to the golf world by preventing those thieves from hawking their wares here, and I try to do my part in deleting links and threads made by those people.

PGATeacher · 02-28-2012, 07:57 PM

I am the owner of The Reno Tahoe Golf Academy and mostly give golf lessons, but I do sell equipment. I suffered from counterfeit golf clubs from carrying Nike equipment. I could not compete with the online pricing from ebay and others as a result of counterfeit clubs. Nike would not do anything to help. I bought clubs at wholesale and they were for sale for less than I paid for them. Could not compete. This is a real problem and if the industry stands by and does nothing about it, they won't be around much longer.

**DennisM** · 02-28-2012, 08:01 PM

That's exactly why the pro shop where I work won't carry inventory. Same problem and you can't get a guy who paid so little for his clone clubs to believe he got screwed.

lancelsoldes · 09-20-2012, 02:31 AM

I can understand club makers problem with knock off clubs, but I have another concern.

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kathybhylton · 09-20-2012, 09:48 PM

I understand that you are addressing this issue seriously. Advertising will find way to violate many forum rules and regulations just to promote this poor counterfeit golf club.
And I want to congratulate you Dennis and all moderators here for doing a great job in removing unnecessary links. Moderation is the best way to get rid of this poor advertising.

**DennisM** · 09-20-2012, 10:09 PM

Thank you Kathy. I mod here and also at a 55,000 member guitar forum and unbelievably, we actually have a bigger problem with unpaid ads here. The counterfeit club sellers are a drop in the bucket compared to some things we get rid of.

One of these days we'll figure out how to corral those guys, or, hoping against hope, maybe they will finally get smart and stop trying when they realize we are very good at seeing through them and deleting their ads within minutes of them hitting our forums.

Thanks again...
Dennis

Turbotater · 11-09-2012, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I don't argue that unions once served a purpose, but they have outlived their usefulness when their actions threaten the survival of the companies their workers are employed by - when it becomes more about power and greed than any actual needed benefit to the members. I've seen it first hand, so you can't tell me that I'm just touting the conservative party line. I've watched unions protect unqualified or just plain lazy "workers" simply because they are paid up members. Many unions make it nearly impossible for an employer to get rid of an inefficient worker as long as he shows up and puts in his time, regardless of the quality or quantity of his work. And those who are willing to work are forced shoulder that much more of the job. My company made a lot of changes over the years, and they resulted in more work being done more efficiently by fewer workers. That was how we kept costs at a level where we were competitive - in reality we became the world leader in the product we manufactured. We outsourced some parts production, but only to US manufacturers, not overseas unless those parts were being warehoused as spare parts to be used in that region. We had such a setup in Europe, where many of the spares used in European facilities were also made in European shops.

But that has nothing to do with counterfeit clubs. Counterfeits are made with cheaper materials, poor quality control, and break every patent and copyright law in the world. This site does a service to the golf world by preventing those thieves from hawking their wares here, and I try to do my part in deleting links and threads made by those people.

Hi Guys, I'm new to the forum and possibly a bit naive to the rules and regs of this forum. Last month, I posted some pics of my putter on the Photos of Your Clubs thread in the General Forum.
I noticed today my post is gone. Did it possibly get thrown out as counterfeit or did I possibly violate a rule or something of the sort?
Thanks,
Wayde

**Cajun** · 11-09-2012, 04:16 PM

It was removed because of the retail link in the post. Pictures are ok, but a link to someplace that sells the putter is not.

Turbotater · 11-09-2012, 04:27 PM

Ok, Thanks.
I did it again. lol
A guy on another thread was looking for a putter and I posted the website.
Other forums I'm involved with let us post websites.
Sorry, won't do it again.

**broken tee** · 11-17-2012, 02:44 PM

[quote=lancelsoldes;58557]I can understand club makers problem with knock off clubs, but I have another concern.

What is your concern

I've found that clubs do matter, when I started 11 or 12 years ago I used low end clubs. I found that I loved the challenge golf gives and went to a brand named manufacturer and by my standards I greatly improved. I'm now ready to upgrade and I don't want fakes.

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