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Golfbum · 12-05-2007, 03:22 PM

There is no excuse for slow play other than the fact the slow player just doesn't give a crap about anyone else on the golf course.

I have played this game for over 25 years, I think I might be a fair judge on slow players. In that span of time I have played with people who can't break 80-90-100-110. They all played a round of golf within the 4 hour limit. Why? Simple, they do not mess around between shots. They hit, walk up the edges of the fairways to get to their balls and they are ready to hit again.

That is not a hard concept to learn or follow. Only an ignorant golfer, who as I said does not care about anyone else but themselves will not follow that simple concept.

People who refuse to wave a group through if they are slow.......RUDE.

Studs who stand in the rough, 280 yards from a Par 5 green thinking they can hit the green from there. STUPID & RUDE. I laugh at men who just corked a drive a grand total of 220-230 off the tee on a 500+ Par 5 then stand there until the green clears to hit their second shot

Do they actually think they can get home in two from there? Come on, they just hit a driver, off a tee and hit the ball 2230. There isn't a snowballs chance in hell that they'll reach that green in two. Yet they slow down everyone playing behind them.

As I said, only golfers can control slow play. Even if you shoot 100 you should still be able to get around the course in 4 hours or less. We have gone around 18 holes in 3 hours with 3 players, and again that included the guy who shoots in the mid 90's. If there is no one ahead of us we just play golf. Leave the socializing to the patio after the round. It is OK to walk and talk, but to stop and talk is just not right.

If you have to look for a ball, look for no more than 3 minutes. Yes I know the rules state you are allowed 5 minutes. But face reality, your ball is in 4 inch rough. You do not have a clue where it might be other than a rough guess from the tee. Chances are if you have not located that ball within 3 minutes you will not find it in 5 either. Unless you are in a tournament where you would have to go back to the spot you hit the last shot from, DON'T. Drop, count 2 strokes and play on. You are not a PRO. Just play on and get moving.

Line putts up while others putt, being respectful and not getting in their line of site. Be ready to putt when it is your turn. Continue to putt until you are in the hole, unless you are going to step on someones line.

Hit your tee shot and be ready to start walking as soon as the last tee ball has been struck. Walk to your ball, not your buddies, then to yours. Be ready to hit your shot when it is your turn. This means having the club in your hands and knowing what shot you want to hit. If you need a practice swing, make it while the other players are hitting their shots, if you are not in their line of site. Stand up to your ball and hit it. Again, you are not a PRO playing for millions.

People might find out they can actually score better if they play quicker. I know I do.

PLAY GOLF. It is that simple.

**ActionJackson** · 12-05-2007, 04:47 PM

I agree with a lot of your words but your ideas would be a lot more attractive if they weren't said with such an agitated and negative tone, that PM obviously fell on deaf ears.

Surtees · 12-05-2007, 05:53 PM

with slow play i think it shouldnt happen but we have to face it that it does happen we just have to hope and try and teach slower players to wave faster players through. i hate to say this but most of the time 100+ hitter but my mates that i go out with are too and we still make it around in about 4hrs sometimes we catch some players and sometime we get caught and wave people through. We chat on the course but we do this as we all walk to our own balls and get ready to take our shots. We all play golf because we enjoy it, not to get upset about how others are playing because face it if you get upset normally your own game suffers and if i wasnt enjoying my time on the course there is no point being there. so i think education is the key not anger.

Fourputt · 12-05-2007, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surtees

with slow play i think it shouldnt happen but we have to face it that it does happen we just have to hope and try and teach slower players to wave faster players through.

The trouble is, on a busy course waving others through won't solve anything. There will simply be another group behind them and yet another behind that one. The real issue is course policy and the willingness to risk irritating patrons by "harassing" them. On my home course, except in extreme cases, the rangers are only allowed to go so far, because it is a partially tax funded municipal course. I have played other privately owned public access courses where they are more aggressive in the application of pace of play policies. In either case, when the course is packed, it would be quite ineffectual for any slow group to start letting the groups behind them play though. All that does is leave them standing around waiting for group after group, but it does nothing to help speed play.

Education is the only thing that will really solve the problem, and sometimes that only comes with tough love... i.e. if they hold things up and won't pick up the pace, they get ejected.

The course that will do that is a rare breed though.

Golfbum · 12-07-2007, 07:49 AM

Rick on most privately owned public courses up here the Rangers are powerless. They drive out and give the slow players a warning and that is the end of it. Rarely will anyone be kicked off a public course here due to slow play. It's all about the dollars. Owners feel if they kick slow players off then those players will not return resulting in lost revenue.

However if owners get the pace of the play sped up at their courses they might gain revenue. As golfers find out they can get around a course in under 4 hours because Management actually enforces the Slow Play Rule then they might spend their money at that course.

The private course I work at has no Ranger and rarely does it take over 4 hours to play a round there. The members police themselves and their speed of play.

Fourputt · 12-07-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfbum

Rick on most privately owned public courses up here the Rangers are powerless. They drive out and give the slow players a warning and that is the end of it. Rarely will anyone be kicked off a public course here due to slow play. It's all about the dollars. Owners feel if they kick slow players off then those players will not return resulting in lost revenue.

However if owners get the pace of the play sped up at their courses they might gain revenue. As golfers find out they can get around a course in under 4 hours because Management actually enforces the Slow Play Rule then they might spend their money at that course.

The private course I work at has no Ranger and rarely does it take over 4 hours to play a round there. The members police themselves and their speed of play.

I posted some similar comments in your other slow play thread. I'm not a regular on any private course, so I don't really know that much. The one private course that I do play a few times a summer isn't crowded enough for slow play to be a problem. On that course it's easy to let a faster group play through. On the public course however, it is just too busy, and with so may groups, the odds are that at least a couple foursomes will be slower, and that start to slow the entire course down. And that is all it takes on a crowded course. It becomes very difficult to pick the pace back up again once the accordion effect starts.

Golfbum · 12-07-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I posted some similar comments in your other slow play thread. I'm not a regular on any private course, so I don't really know that much. The one private course that I do play a few times a summer isn't crowded enough for slow play to be a problem. On that course it's easy to let a faster group play through. On the public course however, it is just too busy, and with so may groups, the odds are that at least a couple foursomes will be slower, and that start to slow the entire course down. And that is all it takes on a crowded course. It becomes very difficult to pick the pace back up again once the accordion effect starts.

The private course I work at is busy! I know, I haul the bags out of the back shop and line them up for the members. In the summer the first tee time is 7:30 AM and it is usually solid tee times until noon. Every 8 or 9 minutes there is another group going off. I think the bottom line is on private courses is the respect the members have for one another. Not so much on public courses where it is every man/woman for themselves!

To be honest, slow play is not a big issue in this area of Ontario. Yes the courses get crowded at times. Maybe I do not see much slow play due to the fact I play early in the morning when there tends to be more serious golfers on the course.

Fourputt · 12-07-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfbum

The private course I work at is busy! I know, I haul the bags out of the back shop and line them up for the members. In the summer the first tee time is 7:30 AM and it is usually solid tee times until noon. Every 8 or 9 minutes there is another group going off. I think the bottom line is on private courses is the respect the members have for one another. Not so much on public courses where it is every man/woman for themselves!

To be honest, slow play is not a big issue in this area of Ontario. Yes the courses get crowded at times. Maybe I do not see much slow play due to the fact I play early in the morning when there tends to be more serious golfers on the course.

Heh heh.....In midsummer our first group generally goes off as early as 5:30 AM (First shift for starters begins at 5:15 on those days). The mowers are out on the 1st and 10th holes with headlights on by 5 to keep ahead of the players. We are usually packed all day every day until it's too late for a full 18 holes. On weekdays it's not always full foursomes for every tee time, but most times are reserved for at least a pair of golfers, and a lot of those slots are filled by walk-ons. It might slow down for an hour or so in late afternoon, then we start twilight rates, and the players start showing up to get on the the list, first come first served. I've had weekdays in the starter booth where I couldn't even squeeze in a single golfer for more than 3 hours. Sometimes I wonder when these people work to be able to afford the green fees...???

**DennisM** · 12-08-2007, 01:48 PM

With my ankle and knee problems keeping me from being able to play for a few months, this subject still irritates me. I won't reiterate what has been said already, because I couldn't solve anything even if I could say it better. I'll also join the camp that defends a golfer at any skill level who can move his or her way around the golf course instead of being rude and not knowing the etiquette of the game. It's in the rule book to make the game fun for all of us, but I wonder how many have read that part of the rule book.

So, to try putting a positive spin on this, here's my 2 cents worth. These are the things I wish I could see, and I'd be really interested to hear if this is the case with your favorite course.

I wish the Rangers actually DID something more than just being visible. Where I like to play, two Rangers ride around in carts with little flags on them and they do thing like refill the sand buckets on the player's carts... (stuff to fill divots with)... They might mention someone who lost a club and try to help them recover it... They tell us when the weather radar suggests something threatening is near by... They wave and put a friendly face on the golf course... BUT...

What I have never seen them do is ENFORCE a group letting someone else through when the slow group is holding up the whole course.

I wish there were signs in the cart to briefly explain to players that if the hole in front of them is open, they are playing too slowly and if someone behind them is waiting for them, it is THEM who are slow. It should also say the Rangers have authority to stop them and let following groups through.

I wish there were signs on the tees of par 3 holes to suggest letting the following group hit up. I wish those signs mention good manners to do so in the process. I know one place, in Jamaica of all places, where as an alternative, they put little huts with soft drink stands on the side of the par 3 tees. It let's people occupy a bit of time more comfortably than standing in the sun waiting for a group ahead of them to play the hole. On the other hand, the people I knew when I lived there, whether Jamaican, British or American, were much more polite on the course than most people are here.

So how do we fix what is broken? I think we need to start by educating the young generation.

I hope junior golf camps, seminars and lessons in general for the beginning age group include lessons on more than how to hit the ball. I hope they teach the children how to position themselves on a green so they didn't stay in sight when someone else is putting. I hope they teach them how to properly rake a bunker. I hope they learn and understand how rude it is to walk in someone else's line.

I hope they learn that it can even be dangerous to other people to be a distraction while someone else is hitting a shot. Golf balls are dangerous things, but more than once, I've seen someone who hit their ball into an adjacent fairway drive their cart out into the fairway just to sit and wait to hit their shot, while people on that hole have to wait and can't play the hole that would otherwise be open in front of them. Worse yet, I've seen the people on the tee simply hit their drives anyway, taking a chance of hitting the rude person in the fairway.

I hope they learn that betting on the golf course isn't something that is actually too frowned upon, since most people seem to agree it leads to a little incentive to pay attention. BUT - it shouldn't be allowed to become the only reason to play golf or take more time doing it... go back and reread a previous post about people who think they are on tour and make a 5 minute study worthy of a Ph.D. candidate out of every shot or putt.

In short, I have hope for the future generations.

Fourputt · 12-08-2007, 06:28 PM

On my course the rangers don't force a play through, but what they will do is make the slow group skip a hole to catch up if they don't show any inclination to do anything on their own. That happened several times this last summer while I was working.

One small issue that I have with our pace of play policy is that it is fixed to a maximum time rather than to actually keeping with the group ahead. I've had a group make the turn more than 15 minutes out of position with those ahead, but I can't say anything if they are within the 2:10 max time set for 9 holes. I feel that there should be a reasonable expectation for a foursome following another foursome, that regardless of the time, if they are more than a hole behind, then they are still behind. Unfortunately, those who set the rules haven't yet seen fit to adopt that sort of policy...